Curse

Bryant Again · May 07, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Granted, yes it *did* change the prejudice. No "LF TANK" and more "LFM Ursan".

And oh snap, we done got Regina's attention!

Nightmares Hammer · May 07, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Yes.

Guys in my alliance without Ursan because they don't own GW:EN can't get into PUG groups for anything anymore.

Ursan may let "professions that never get in" go somewhere, but it doesn't matter people people have multiple characters/professions. Can't get into Urgoz with your mesmer? So... make/use a ranger. Furthermore, playing a mesmer or a sin etc as an ursan defeats the point of playing one. You aren't actually a mesmer if you are running Ursan. You're a warrior.

Why use a PUG...? I thought they were bad...

I agree with the rest of it.

Navaros · May 08, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Yes UB has changed the elitism type, but that is great. Contrary to the OP, it is not just Mesmers who could never get a party prior to UB. Rather, it was Mesmers and Assasins and Rits and Dervishes and Paragons.

That's 5 classes that were unwelcome to ever particpate in any parties, especially high-end PVE areas. UB letting them all into parties at the tradeoff of skill discrimination is a more than worthy tradeoff. Players who happened to have chosen the wrong class had no recourse at all to ever have any chance to participate. But UB is a skill that every player can easily get and have a recourse available to be able to participate.

Hooray for the UB prejudice shift!

Nightow · May 08, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

If I could micro better, I'd give Hero Battles a shot

.

There are alot of great, if not out right excellent, hero builds that require little to no microing.

I might give it a shot as well, if they could prove to me that they could get out of the way of 10 Meteor Showers in UW first!

Burst Cancel · May 08, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

There's that word "elitism" again. You guys say it like it's a bad thing, when there's nothing inherently wrong with elitism - particularly in a game, where nearly everything is merit-based in some form or another to begin with.

While I dislike playing Ursan (I'm a monk, after all), it's the path of least resistance - easy, convenient, and faster than anything else a PuG is likely to come up with. The average PuG group would be stupid not to take it. It's not so much a matter of 'elitism' as a matter of ensuring the best chance of getting something done in reasonable time, and not worrying about bad players causing the team to blow up.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not in the habit of playing missions or whatnot just to have my time wasted. If there's something out there that makes party building easier and overall increases your chance of success, exactly why wouldn't you take it?

LifeInfusion · May 08, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

My problems with ursan:
it promotes 1-2-3-4 gameplay, with little or no support (no heals, no condition removal, no hex removal, no hexes, only puts out weakness and knockdown)
it sets a new discrimination in place , rank discrimination
whatever profession you are, a warrior w/ ursan would be better simply because zealous + higher armor than caster = better ursan
makes people "need" eye of the north
eliminates the idea of energy, adrenaline or anything of that sort

Anatomy of an ursan:
armor ignoring 40...75 twice (3 cooldown)
armor ignoring 60...135 plus 2 second knockdown (10 cooldown)
2...5seconds of weakness on enemies in earshot and +5...15damage per attack for allies (15 cooldown)
8...14 seconds of 20...33% faster (12 cooldown)

none of this particularly challenging or fun.

DivineEnvoy · May 08, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Granted, yes it *did* change the prejudice. No "LF TANK" and more "LFM Ursan".

And oh snap, we done got Regina's attention!

First of all, I don't believe Regina or even Gaile does make the decision on this matter. Wouldn't it be more logical to say you are trying to get the developers' attention?

Secondly, making the 50th thread about Ursan doesn't necessarily catch Regina's attention as she may not have read the thread at all. Wouldn't it be more logical to get her attention on her talk page with a topic about Ursan like this one here?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...Ursan_Blessing

{IceFire} · May 08, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

armor ignoring 60...135 plus 2 second knockdown (10 cooldown)

it's not armor ignoring.

also

viper11025 · May 08, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Guys, wow. Get over this already.
Its great for non standard pvp classes.
Sins, Mesmers, rangers, and paragons are alot better with it.

Kook~NBK~ · May 08, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper11025

Sins, Mesmers, rangers, and paragons are alot better with it.

And THIS is why Ursan is so useful for Sins, Mesmers, Rangers, and Paragons: The perception that the non-"trinity" classes aren't as useful or capable (better) in PvE when they don't use Ursan by so many people who would still exclude these professions if they didn't use ursan. It's utter nonsense, but too many people just don't get it.

rohara · May 08, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

i think yr right. elitism just shifted from trinity (or flavor-for-a-particular-area, ie tombs BP) to all-out ursan. i'm ok with it tbh, even though i'm not crazy about playing ursan.

i think its funny to be in a nuker duncan team and hear people in the group QQ about ursan - then watch a mesmer ask to join and be rudely rejected.

pot calling the kettle black.

Cathode_Reborn · May 08, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

And THIS is why Ursan is so useful for Sins, Mesmers, Rangers, and Paragons: The perception that the non-"trinity" classes aren't as useful or capable (better) in PvE when they don't use Ursan by so many people who would still exclude these professions if they didn't use ursan. It's utter nonsense, but too many people just don't get it.

So true...

Paragons are easily the most imba and powerful of all classes in PvE. Nothing can compare. It takes 6 Ursans just to try to compete with 1 paragon. A lone Ursan on a team could almost be considered a waste of space.

Master Sword Keeper · May 08, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

Well lets look at the Elite Areas.If your Norn title isn't rank 9-10 the PUGS call you a noob and give ya the boot.

Point expressed.

Does anyone else get this in ToA or Elite zones? i use my monk when i comes to doin Ursan runs.

But havin a lets face it, R9-10 ursan title means crap if the team are a bunch of nubs,

I hate doin FoW/Uw with pugs, I prefer friends, coz some n00bs over-aggro and i get swamped, coz the other monk is usually a nub... Sheesh. Nuff sed?

Red Sonya · May 08, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

I'd add a thing to that.

9. Some also hate that they don't feel as "leet" anymore; their weapons have gone down in price, their ectos have done down in price. They see Ursan as a threat to their economy; the fact armbraces are 100k+10e on average has made a couple players go mad because anyone with time could afford one, and not the "leet" players anymore "OMG ever1 has my tormented shield its crap cuz its not leet anymore if every1 has it, QQ". I bet they're also the ones who think ursan users are scrubs with no skills.

Lol Kusandaa I think you hit the nail on the head what Ursans did was make new LEET players in fact all of the population that don't mind grinding up to the r10 Norn requirements can become leet and get some very nice gear they otherwise couldn't before. The old Leet players are now just common stock amongst the rest and no longer have any stature as they did before because a large majority of players now can play anywhere and everywhere.

Good call Anet.
I'd say most everything now is affordable to the majority of players especially those that have been here 3 years. And those that are new once they get their Ursans and r10 can join the ranks right along with them in no time. Certainly won't take them 3 years I bet.

Krill · May 08, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

It's ridiculously easy to hit R10 anyway, it should take most players a week tops to max, so there really shouldn't be a problem with elitism if you just invest a short amount of time into it.

Two weeks of my life mindlessly mashing keys so I can get in pve groups? Sincerely, no thanks.

I'm actually glad UB ruined pve, it got me started on pvp and that has renewed my interest in the game. I did give in and buy eotn but I haven't even touched the pve part yet. I really feel bad for people that started the game after UB.

Navaros · May 08, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Lol Kusandaa I think you hit the nail on the head what Ursans did was make new LEET players in fact all of the population that don't mind grinding up to the r10 Norn requirements can become leet and get some very nice gear they otherwise couldn't before. The old Leet players are now just common stock amongst the rest and no longer have any stature as they did before because a large majority of players now can play anywhere and everywhere.

Good call Anet.
I'd say most everything now is affordable to the majority of players especially those that have been here 3 years. And those that are new once they get their Ursans and r10 can join the ranks right along with them in no time. Certainly won't take them 3 years I bet.

There was nothing leet about the so-called old leet players, who wouldn't take anyone into their DOA/Urgoz/Deep etc. party who didn't happen to have the exact class and cookie cutter build they wanted. They only thought they were leet because of they kicked out so many "normal players" who didn't happen to be the class they wanted or have the same one exact cookie cutter build they wanted. How they used those one set of cookie cutter builds and classes for each area, that one cookie cutter being the only acceptable one, takes no more skill and is no more leet than using Ursan is. Leet in GW has always been an illlusion.

UB just switched the one acceptable cookie cutter build to one where everyone can participate (the old so-called leet players refused party entry to other players solely based on instant class and skillbar discrimination, not players being less skilled than them), and one that can be used everywhere as opposed to the old cookie cutters which was one specific one per area. That's a good net benefit, not a bad one.

Red Sonya · May 08, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I'm on your side Navaros, but, I did find those old style players elitists as they thought they were better than everyone else and would only take certain builds and specific characters. For what? 2-1/2 years the mesmers, rangers (not so long for assassins deverishers and paragons) were shunned more often than not from the elite areas. Now hahah its those old timer elitists that are getting shunned cause they don't want to grind up the UB title lol don't they call that sweet revenge or something?

{IceFire} · May 08, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Two weeks of my life mindlessly mashing keys so I can get in pve groups? Sincerely, no thanks.

YOU'RE DOIN IT WRONG

but then I guess how fast you get r10 depends on this "skill" i keep hearing about

right?

Red Sonya · May 08, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

lol Icefire that was a good one. Takes UB to get maxed out faster in it.

Th Fooster · May 08, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

It seems to me that human nature NEEDs a bad guy, and a good guy.
Who the bad guy and who the good guy may change, BUT peopple love to hate.They NEED a scapegoat. its part of thier in game stress relief to vent it on something they think is "noobish" or "cheap" for the time being, its ursan. I personaly hate asassins.But they are very usefull in pve and pve.When a sin ties to "solo me" in pvp i just laugh! i know i know.. "not me you wouldnt i would pwn any class with my sin i do all the time.." thats what you may think, but alas..I have seen it all form the soj dancing daggers smite sins to the rediculous temple strike sins.. my sin hate comes from my own predjuduce that started when facitons came out people tried to play sins liek they were tanks. and failed. and to this day in pvp i see some clown doing cartweels and crap tryin to "pwn me" i laugh! BUT they are efective when incorperated in a team, despite my predjuduce, they are not that bad of a class.I have always loved mesmers even back in the anti mesmer days.
My point is i agree with the started of this thread. UB has not caused any new hate. its jsut concentrated it onto UB, and now any clown can get rank 10 norn, and jopin a party regardless of thier class.

My UWspeed clear groups have demonstrated what can be done with good teamwork and ursan blessing is just simply part of the build but the speed in witch we clear in takes the focus off ursan and puts it on the team, and our methods do not depend on ursan in fact, they can be implemented in non ursan teams with similar results. and thats the issue here...
UB has not inspired any new hate. it was always there. teh focus has just shifted